Public Quests And Moving Forward

Massively reports that Public Quests will be a big part of Champions Online. I'm glad to see that one of the few innovations of Warhammer Online (and the only real feature of it that grabbed me) will continue. I hope they manage to address some of the main failings of Public Quests in their version.

One of the major failings of the Public Quest system as it was implemented in Warhammer Online was the fact that it was basically a new form of static grind. Sure, it was fun to participate in what were essentially ad hoc raids throughout all level ranges, but all people did was sit in one spot and repeat the activity over and over again until they got what they needed and moved on. This kills immersion (why does the bad guy keep respawning) and while all gameplay systems are repetitive, the fact that it is exactly the same time and time again gets old real quick.

What would I like to see?

I would prefer for Public Quests in Champions Online to have multiple spawn points so that they can be randomized. There are several banks throughout the city; instead of implementing PQs the Warhammer Online way (where the very same bank is under assault by the very same villains in perpetuity), have a random bank get attacked by a random villain. The basic gameplay might be the same, and sure the players will learn quickly that when Marlboro attacks the bank he has a noxious poison attack while Jokey Smurf leaves more traditional explosives around the bank. But it's not the exact same thing each time. The game moves to slightly different maps with slightly different spawn points and slightly different enemies with slightly different abilities. Maybe a villain has multiple tactics that change from one particular robbery attempt to another.

When you defeat the villain, the PQ should NOT respawn. Instead, something else happens in another part of the city. Maybe a building catches on fire and you have to go save the people inside. Maybe various criminals start causing trouble in one of the several parks. Maybe someone is trying to break into some laboratory to get one of many random inventions that MUST NOT FALL INTO THE WRONG HANDS.

There could be rewards for the players who locate, or trigger (some of the PQs might not start until a hero comes nearby) the event. That would cause the game to reward players for a very super-heroic activity: going on patrol. It would enhance the community building aspects of Public Quests. The heroes who go on patrol would need to call for backup, because they would need to tell everyone else where the action is going on.

It would make the game world feel alive, because we won't all end up running to the two or three PQs in the zone, ignoring the rest of content. The entire map becomes important because the PQs can spawn anywhere and people would need to move around the world.

And while MMOs already reward Achievers extremely well, there aren't very many game systems that actually reward Explorers. Make some Public Quests spawn in relatively remote areas, and reward people for going on patrol and finding them. Now, you have a new form of gameplay -- even if the hero who discovers and triggers the PQ doesn't even want to participate in it, they might achieve some reward for REPORTING the crime.

Will we see anything like that? Beats me. Probably not. But I'm hoping. :)

WAR! What Is It Good For?

Absolutely nothing? It seems a few other bloggers have decided that Warhammer Online may no longer be for them. I've been saying the same thing for a while now, but I decided to log on a few times over the last few days to give it one last hurrah.

It was the same old story: empty PQs, lackluster PVE. I've never complained that a game had 'too much content' before, but its apparent that the servers can't handle the number of players necessary to fill out the content they have. Unfortunately, the content they have isn't very compelling either. While PQs are a nice step forward in MMORPG design, the rest of the PVE game is very poor compared to World of Warcraft and similar games.

There was some Open RvR going on, and since that's one of the central reasons to play this game, I joined in. That was fun, but we had a warband and Destruction at the moment wasn't really putting up a defense, so we basically took everything effortlessly. They may as well just have put a big "Order Wins" button up at the moment. In fact, the only part of the game I still really enjoy are Scenarios, and half of those fell apart due to imbalances.

The only part I seem to continue to enjoy is Scenarios and, unfortunately, Scenarios alone are not enough to keep me in game. Not when its the same six Scenarios over and over again until I level up high enough to move to finally hit tier 4.

I'm coming to the conclusion that maybe the problem I have with Warhammer is that I tend to prefer strategy in games. I don't mind losing a game, but I prefer losing if the opponent outplays me. I don't enjoy losing if the other team wins because they have more people, or if they simply play more often (and therefore level up higher). I also don't really enjoy winning if I'm on the winning side simply because we have a zerg.

Maybe my problem is that Realm vs Realm just isn't for me, because it is inherently an unbalanced form of competition. There is no way to guarantee that an RvR zone accepts the same number of people, balanced by level and class. And, of course, it's probably not even worth trying to "fix", since many people DO like that kind of gameplay.

Some day someone will recapture the essence of Warhammer's Scenarios, hopefully without the level grind attached to it, and I'll definitely check that out.



The Slovenian band Laibach's version of the song War. Everyone has heard the Edwin Starr original. Laibach actually answers the question.

Too Little, Too Late?

More bloggers are cancelling their WAR accounts? I've been considering it, though I am still having enough fun that I like to log in on occasion. I just managed to grind my Bright Wizard to 26 tonight, but the game isn't anywhere near as fun as it was at launch. And I'm on a destination server for server transfers...

Warhammer's major problem right now is population. The game simply requires a critical mass of players to work, and it doesn't have it. A PVE MMORPG might be able to survive with a low population, but not an RVR-centric game.

Mythic has been working hard to release patches and start server transfers to alleviate the issue. I'm still subscribed for three more months, so I'll be around to see how that turns out. But at this rate, I'm wondering if the game will even make it that long.

Its too bad, because with the right number of players, this game is a blast.

Big Changes in WAR

Looks like Mythic has been rather busy.

I particularly like the changes made to help make sure one scenario doesn't dominate.

The Witching Night

Warhammer Online has introduced its first Live Event, which involves a PQ in the Open RvR areas. It was great fun, and my Bright Wizard, Brendis, walked off with a Massive Loot bag from which I claimed the Mask of the Bloodletter, one of the four special masks for this event.

The event brought out a lot of people into the Open RvR zones, for some constant almost-nonstop (except when the cowardly Destruction dogs took to hiding in their campgrounds) action.

The way this event worked, at least in the Tier 3 zone, is in two phases. The first phase involved killing one hundred of your enemies before they killed one hundred of your side. After you succeed with that, a scary Witching Lord spawns and you have to kill that, unless you are me, in which case, you die running to the event, and then respawn and run as all heck to get back to the chest that drops after the PQ is completed while being chased by lots of sore losers from the Destruction side.

One nice thing about the Open RvR PQ - even if you die after stage 1, your contribution still counts. Unfortunately, I died before I could kill the boss, so I didn't get to experience that, but I still got the top contribution slot for the event. I mention this here because some people were saying that only your contribution towards the boss counted, and that might discourage people from participating. That most definitely is not the case.

All in all, I'm rather happy with how this event turned out. It was pretty fun; I hope Mythic chooses to move more of the PQ style mechanics into RvR zones in the future. It was a good move and participating in this event was a nice respite from the Scenario grind that it sometimes feels like this game has turned into.

WAR is like three games in one

Warhammer Online is like three games in one. And that's not a good thing, in this case, because its like three separate games that don't have much to do with one another.

Right now, you have Scenarios, which are a blast. You launch into a Scenario (instanced RVR battleground) from anywhere in the world; this means if you want to play Scenarios, the world itself is largely irrelevant since its a just an overly decorated lobby. And that, unfortunately, is how most people play the game, since the rewards for PQs and Open World RvR don't match.

The other game in Warhammer is the PVE game. And while PQs offer a nice incremental improvement over it, they are only sporadically populated in the higher tiers, and most of the time, I see people only at the PQ nearest the camp for that Chapter. The biggest problem with PVE right now is that its actually more rewarding to grind the soloable first part of a PQ by yourself... which is counterintuitive and undermines the community-building nature that PQs and Open Groups were meant to encourage.

And, last but not least, there's the Open World RvR. In theory. I've seen this only a few times, and only when my guild mustered up people to take on a Keep. But while its great fun to storm a Keep, ultimately its not very rewarding. In the time it takes to run back and get one-shotted again (I'm playing a Bright Wizard, so that doesn't take long), I could play a Scenario and get better XP and loot...

Any one of these sub-games would be great in its own right. A PQ-based version of WoW would be amazing. A game solely focussed on Open World RvR would be fun. But as long as the rewards remain out of balance between them, the whole game suffers.

Mythic has been very responsive so far, improving XP for PVE and RvR. I'm still planning on continuing to play WAR; I just subscribed for three more months (on top of the two subscriptions I have with EQ2!), so I'm still convinced in the future of this game. But to keep that fee past January, we will need to see more improvements besides simple XP boosts.

There also need to be fixes to itemization so that RvR rewards justify the time and effort invested.

We also need better travel options. Scenarios aren't just popular because they give better XP; they are also popular because you can get into the action very quickly. There are too many zones where (even on horseback) I have to run around forever to complete quests. Better PVE travel options also means more people can get to the Warcamps faster for RvR.

I would also like to see dynamic mechanisms created as a way to TIE the separate games together into a more cohesive whole... so, for example, if lots of players are in PVE dungeons or Scenarios, maybe that gives the RvR players some sort of bonus (because our warriors are stalwart enough to defect some of the meanest and nastiest critters to plague the lands, see). It may seem counterintuitive to reward someone OTHER than the ones doing the work here, but the idea is this: if people are doing really well in the dungeons that means they aren't in RvR, so this helps encourage people to come back out into the daylight and venture onto the real battlefields; it also gives a little boost to the people who are already on the battlefield to make up for the fact that all their friends are underground. The other advantage is that the game feels less like three separate games and more like one interrelated whole.

Missions in the WAR Overworld

While I love Warhammer so far, it really feels like the PVE portion of the game was sort of tacked on. Scenarios and PQs are a blast, and RVR is fun, but the PVE quests themselves are disappointing, mostly because they offer nothing new. It's still designed as a collection of quest hubs that send you from one to another, collecting kill X badger quests in your Tome of Knowledge, and then rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

What I would like to see instead of static quest givers standing around perpetually in search of their lost coin purse is a sort of mission system. It should provide a PQ style set of objectives to a party, but not be tied to one location. The various objectives could even be tied together. For example, add an NPC to war camps that asks for supplies. A party of players could ask the NPC for a PVE mission which sends them to caves to mine or a spider-infested forest to collect wood. When they turn it in, they can repeat the same quest. However, every time one group turns in a batch of supplies, it allows one other party to pick up a quest to deliver those supplies to a Keep or some other location.

Perhaps more complicated missions (even competitive ones where a party is sent to talk to a spy while an opposing group is sent to assassinate him) might even be possible.

While there are "collect X supplies" and "deliver X supplies" style quests in game right now, what I'm looking for is for them to gain a more dynamic aspect and make some kind of (temporary) change to the world. The quest givers should stop asking for supplies when they get them, and stop asking people to deliver them when they run out. One group might collect supplies while a braver band of players might deliver them into dangerous territory. There should be an effect on the game world and the community at large based on how many of these quests are being completed (if enough of your side's spies aren't killed, you might see nearby enemy movement on the map, for instance.)

Missions could also reward Renown (if they involve travel into the RVR lakes) as well as XP and coin and should be repeatable. Anyone in the party will be rewarded when it's completed based on their contribution.

What I want to see a mission/quest system created that is somewhat dynamic (if no one is collecting resources, then no one can get the mission to deliver the supplies), tied into the RVR system, has aspects that PVE players can still get involved with, is tied to the combined efforts of multiple parties over time, and, most importantly, takes place in the REAL WORLD where all other the players are, and not locked away in an instance, so the world feels more alive.

To WAR!!!

Today, Jo Bildo touched on the very reason why Warhammer is so compelling when many recent MMOs have not been as successful. And the reason is: WAR.

That's also why I like the game. From the moment you log in, to any area, you hear the pounding of cannons, and see the (NPC) enemy battling it out. The NPCs taunt you with the power of the Raven Host and other hated enemies. And if you tire of fighting NPCs, you can immediately jump into the fray by joining an RVR scenario if you feel like it, from the very beginning.

In WOW, well, the first thing I saw were wolves and rats and the usual backstory about someone dropping their wallet. Then you fight some bandits, but those aren't "THE" enemy, just "an" enemy. Then you go fight Murloks with their annoying noises. Because someone else dropped their wallet over there. And so on and so on. Forever, I'm fetching wallets for random people from random places, and it was rare that I ever saw a Horde (in the newbie areas) because few ventured so deep. By the time I did encounter one, I forgot why I cared, if I ever did.

In EverQuest II, we were promised a cold war between the two cities. A couple false starts when the game first came out let us sabotage the enemy, but without a compelling reason to bother, most of us just gave up and started adventuring side by side with them instead.

But in Warhammer, war is the backbone of the story from the very beginning; each racial conflict is the driving force of the whole game. Sure, you're still running 10 places and clicking on 10 things, but its FOR THE WAR. And that really makes all the difference.

Shhhh... Chaos Might Hear Us Thinking

I'm starting to notice that there's something missing from the (non-guild) Warhammer groups I've joined. In other games, people actually TALK. This was more frequent in games like Final Fantasy XI where fights were followed by lengthy downtimes. But even in EQ2, groups chatted far more often than they do in WAR.

In WAR, people join randomly, do their own thing, and drop out when they feel like it. Of course, this varies from group to group: I've joined friendlier groups that did talk a little, but the majority of them are silent. Its worse than silence. Most of the groups were unorganized and everyone acted as individuals; even though we were "grouped" from the game mechanic's perspective, we were still playing on our own. Even if someone tried to talk the group into utilizing a strategy, maybe by helpfully suggesting that someone (not me) pull (because I'm a Bright Wizard and fall apart in one hit) and that we pull maybe at most one monster at a time and focus on it instead of everyone running around pulling all fifteen champions all at once which might be a bad idea because we have no freaking healers or if we do they haven't found the heal button yet , people went about things their own way with no reply and no acknowledgement that they had even the slightest understanding of basic English.

It goes beyond just having quiet groups; the whole world is quiet. I guess that's because there don't appear to be world chat channels? Do people think that is a good thing? I know a lot of people discuss rather stupid things in world chat sometimes; but -- especially when I'm soloing PVE -- I like the distraction. And if the groups I join aren't talking, with world chat, at least there's another channel somewhere that is. Even when I don't feel like taking part in it, I like listening in.

Maybe its just me (nope, I guess not) - but Warhammer feels really, really quiet compared to other MMOs... Anyone have an idea why? Could the lack of downtime inherent in the games 'community building' Open Grouping/Public Quest model actually has the opposite effect?

(If everyone else's game sessions have been going like mine, it may be because we're all so distraught from being constantly slaughtered by Chaos that we're cradling ourselves in a corner, crying, and telling ourselves it will all be alright..... it will all be alright...... it will all be alright.......)

Random Thoughts

Warhammer Online is a pretty fun game after you manage to get past the legal disclaimer grind. Yeah, they make you scroll down and accept TWO screens EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU TRY TO PLAY. How annoying.

I'm still playing EverQuest II. My guild broke up, after the guild leaders all decided to bail at once and join a raiding guild. This turns out to be a good thing as I've since joined the guild Via Solara, also on the Najena server, which is far more close knit and friendly than Explorers of Legend ever were. So, its nice how bad things can just work out for the best sometimes.

While I am enjoying Warhammer Online, I simply can't pull myself entirely away from EQ2. Even though the game was absolutely terrible upon launch, its really great now, and they just keep making it better. Heck, they even announced it will now have multi-core support in GU49 which means it might actually run well on my 3.2GHz Quad-Core QX9770 based rig!

I didn't like Spore at first, but it picks up later in the game. It still involves a little too many repetitive gameplay elements (I'm not sure how I can say that with a straight face given that I normally play MMORPGs, which are nothing but repetitive, but I am.) I guess the problem I have with it is that it plays like a bunch of isolated mini-games in sequence with little cohesiveness...

Anyway, I'm now in the space stage and my Flying Monkeys are trekking about the galaxy, and having fun exploring in their bright orange Space Trekker.



I actually got my wife to play a video game for once. She enjoyed the cell phase of Spore and she even played the entire stage. The last time I got her to play a video game, she ran my EverQuest II characters off the cliff in Butcherblock Mountains and then got them stuck on a wall because she couldn't figure out how to maneuver them back up the mountain, then got bored and left. That was about a year ago. Maybe this game can help me convert her into a gamer? Doubtful, but I'm gonna try. :)

First Steps in the World of Warhammer

I don't know how much I want to play before launch, but I definitely wanted to take a few steps into the game to see just how well it lives up to its hype. Well, I must say, I'm rather impressed so far.

At first, I was disappointed, as I logged into the newbie area and was inundated with the usual assortment of mindless kill X and fetch Y quests from the usual assortment of motionless people with glowing crap floating over their head. It involved a lot of running around and it wasn't very involving, like most quests in recent MMORPGS, such as World of Warcraft or Age of Conan.

But there are three standout features that changed my opinion drastically:

1) Public Quests: these really are the step forward that the industry needed. They are FUN. Sure, like any other feature, it can become a grind, but its a grind that involves community. But, unlike quests, they are always there, and everyone is always on the same step at the same time.

My problem with quest-driven gameplay has always been that it divides people up even further. Most MMORPGs restrict who you can play with by level, faction, zone, and needed classes already. But when you thrown in quests, it can be very difficult to find people who want to group with you, given that they get nothing out of it if they don't happen to be on the same quest.

Well, with public quests, there's always something going on in the zone where everyone is always on the same stage. It's ideal for the casual player; you can come in, play as long as you need and drop out. And they are fun because they involve more interesting scripts, that in most MMORPGs you don't see outside of raid instances.

2) Open Groups: I haven't played with so many different people since I played City of Heroes. Its nice to see groups in the area, sorted by distance and what they are working on, and be able to just pop in and join a group when I want. No more shouting LFG all the time... So far, most of the groups have been relatively short lived, as people join up for certain goals and move on, but at least we're playing with other people.

3) Instant Action RvR: I've never been a huge fan of PVP but their battleground feature was rather fun, and it was nice to be able to instantly jump into the fray without having to run halfway across a map to find the entrance to an instance or whatever.

Anyway, that's my first impression. Now to get back in game...

Another Casualty of WAR

So, apparently all the cool bloggers are joining the Casualties of WAR guild for the upcoming Warhammer Online. Somehow, I managed to sneak in.

I had not been very interested in Warhammer Online before, but the more I read about it now, the more I'm getting excited. It seems like it might have the kind of game design I've been looking for. The public quest system they mention sounds exactly like the kind of casual friendly game mechanic that encourages grouping and cooperative play I've been hoping for.

I've never been a huge fan of PVP, especially in games that have levels, where it seems whoever plays more wins instead of whoever plays smarter. But I'm willing to give it a shot. That sort of end game mechanic is probably better suited for me than grinding the same instances and raids ad nauseum, which is apparently the only kind of end game PVE game designers can come up with.